Frequently Asked Questions

• How long do the stop signs really last?

• Who would ever spend 2-3x more for a diamond grade stop sign?

• How are the differences in High Intensity Film? And what do the terms, "HIP", "HIB" and "HIS" mean?

• What is the "Matched Component System" from 3M and why is this important?

• What grade of aluminum is used to make road sign blanks?

• What size of stop sign do I need?

• I am confused. When should a sign be yellow green fluorescent? Versus just yellow fluorescent?

• Aren't the rules for reflective signs about to change [again] in 2009?

• What liability do I have [mall operator] have if my sign is no longer terribly reflective?

• What is the "Safe Routes to School" program and does this have any bearing on our school signs?

• Is it legal to put an auto boot on a car that is parked illegally on our property?

• When I look at your site, I see that the supplemental ADA sign that you recommend shows that the fine is $100. Yet, I know that our community has fines that are larger. What is wrong?

• We have experienced a rash of accidents at one of our intersections. I am afraid that the stop sign is being ignored. Do you have any suggestions?

• How deep does the sign post have to be [into the ground]?

• I want to install a stop sign near to a busy sidewalk. How high should the sign be and do you have any instructions for our grounds crew?

• Do tapered posts work better? Is it faster to pound these into the ground?

• I am putting new reserved parking signs around our lot. What posts do I need?

• Can I just buy posts from Home Depot? Or, the local farm supply store?

• Do you sell taller posts? A 10' post?

• When are 360o breakaway posts used?

• What is the most common post used for a 24" stop sign?

How long do the stop signs really last?

Much depends on your climate and if the sign faces north (the best) or south (the worst). Although 3M no longer offers a warranty on their engineer grade signs, they are generally seen to have a service life of seven years. High Intensity and Diamond Grade stop signs last much longer. It is not uncommon to find signs made of these materials with good retroreflectivity and contrast – even after 12 years.

For some confirmation, see the following excerpt from "Supplemental notice of proposed amendments to MUTCD" (May, 2006):

For instance, Type I [engineer grade] material typically has an in-service life of about 7 years, while Type III [high intensity] material usually has an in-service life of 10 years.14 Patents protecting the technology of Type III materials have expired, which has created a very competitive market. The cost difference between Type I and Type III materials is small. In addition, some agencies such as Indiana DOT 15 have studied the in-service life of Type III materials and found that they can be expected to perform adequately for at least 12 years (factors such as geographic regions within the U.S. can impact the expected in-service life of traffic signs).

Therefore, even though the initial costs of Type III materials are slightly higher than Type I materials, the longer material life can produce more economical lifecycle costs. The longer material life also results in sign technicians spending less time working within the right-of-way to replace deficient signs, thus reducing their exposure to being struck by out-of control vehicles.

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Who would ever spend 2-3x more for a diamond grade stop sign?

Yes, these diamond grade stop signs are much more costly. But, they are increasingly popular. Use them for high traffic areas, areas with plenty of other visual distractions, or, when you want superb durability. Many sign companies [and even film manufactures] have been heard to complain that diamond grade signs last too long. With a warranty of 12 years, we have seen most stop signs last longer. Some states even have their DG3 signs on a 17 year replacement cycle – even though the warranty is only for 12 years. If you do the math, it is easy to see why a more expensive sign, once you consider the lifecycle costs and greater safety becomes, in fact, the most economical choice.

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How are the differences in High Intensity Film? And what do the terms, "HIP", "HIB" and "HIS" mean?

The method that 3M uses to manufacture the most common high intensity films has changed. High intensity films, originally used beads. Yet, the shift has been to prismatic constructions. The new term, "HIP" means "high intensity prismatic". The HIP signs are brighter, generally, than the old HIS (or beaded) signs. HIP signs actually have gray bars on the inside of the film that help deaden the retroreflectivity a bit. When these fade in time, some find that the HIP signs actually become more reflective and brighter.

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What is the "Matched Component System" from 3M and why is this important?

We believe that this system approach matters. The inks and the film and meant to work together. They are tested to work together and to give you the best warranty possible. As tempting as it may be to use another company’s ink, there is always the danger of "finger pointing" in case of failure. Given the cost of the ink (especially when compared to the life cycle cost of a sign), it only makes sense to use the best available.

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What grade of aluminum is used to make road sign blanks?

We offer aluminum sign blanks in two alloys, 5052-H38 and 3105-H191. We carry multiple guages (thickness) including .040, .063, .080, .100, and .125. All aluminum is processed in-house to better control quality. We level, treat, cut, punch and radius aluminum coils into road sign aluminum blanks, all within our 65,000 square foot production facility.

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What size of stop sign do I need?

For schools, hospitals, apartment complexes, office parking lots, etc, a 24" stop sign is sufficient. The speeds here are very low (e.g. you are driving into a curb, a short access road, etc.). And, in practice, these signs are usually mounted at 5’ clearance heights (i.e. an 8’ post is used). For roads with higher speeds, a 30" stop sign is best.

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I am confused. When should a sign be yellow green fluorescent? Versus just yellow fluorescent?

Yellow-green is used for school signs and is reserved for pedestrian traffic warnings. The yellow or yellow fluorescent is used for traffic warning signs. Fluorescent yellow-green signs are often called SYG signs ("strong yellow green" signs).

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Aren’t the rules for reflective signs about to change [again] in 2009?

Yes, this is likely to be true. I may be stepping out on a limb, but here are some of our predictions:

• High Intensity or Diamond Grade sheeting will be required for all traffic signs.

• Engineer grade signs, however, are likely to be acceptable for parking signs.

• The official rules will take another two years in gestation. And, once they go into effect, traffic sign users will have from seven to ten years to phase in new signs.

• The impact will be that most sign buyers will start to switch all orders for traffic signs to these brighter materials. Given the liability and lifecycle economics, this is probably the rational outcome.

Understand, of course, that rules change and that politics [can you imagine this!!] may interfere with the trends that look to be in place now. So, please check the rules as the develop!

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What liability do I have [mall operator] have if my sign is no longer terribly reflective?

As we mention before ... if your parking lot and roads are "open to public travel", your signs should follow MUTCD standards. They need to meet the same levels of retroreflectivity that are required for traffic signs on public highways and roads. The tort liability issues, of course, require a lawyer – especially for off-street roads and lots. Off-street means roads that are built or maintained privately. In our experience, however, there is a very strong case for installing the best, brightest and most durable signs possible. When you look at the possible liability when compared to the life-cycle installed cost for even the most costly signs, it is easy to see why so many thoughtful property managers insist on high intensity or diamond grade signs. Wouldn’t the plaintiff’s tort lawyer (after an accident) love to find out that the property owner scrimped on their signs and that the local government has upgraded to a higher quality?

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What is the "Safe Routes to School" program and does this have any bearing on our school signs?

Our understanding is that the goal of this program is to encourage walking and biking to school – and therein build a healthy habit of physical activity. Make is safe to walk to school and keep our children fit. Part of the program, of course, is to make it easier to bike or walk to school. This may mean wider sidewalks, better pavement marking, lighting and, yes, better signs. In some cases, you may find that there is funding that your school or community may obtain to help pay for these updates. Many of our signs are also Safe Routes to School compliant. For more information, click on this link.

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Is it legal to put an auto boot on a car that is parked illegally on our property?

We turned this question over to our lawyer. He said that there may be some local rules, but, in general, this is an accepted practice that, if done prudently is a legitimate way to protect your property. We recommend that you use a sign that clearly states that booting is practiced and that violators are likely to incur this penalty. Also, the sign should provide a number or way to contact your office. Be tough, but clear. And, just in case, you might want to check with local regulations.

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When I look at your site, I see that the supplemental ADA sign that you recommend shows that the fine is $100. Yet, I know that our community has fines that are larger. What is wrong?

We show the state rules. Understand that, in some communities, the local law may mandate a slightly greater fine. If so, please use one of the custom templates and add the correct fine amount. In our experience, however, only a very small portion of the [roughly] 3,000 counties or parishes across the US have special rules that overrule the state guidelines. Please check, to make sure.

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We have experienced a rash of accidents at one of our intersections. I am afraid that the stop sign is being ignored. Do you have any suggestions?

Let’s have you try one of our diamond grade reflectors. These super bright blank signs should draw extra attention to the stop sign.

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How deep does the sign post have to be [into the ground]?

It is recommended that you bury the post two to three feet into the ground. Yet, when you go to the field, most sign posts are actually only buried 18" into the ground. While this is probably okay for most off-street signs (e.g. a Wendy's parking lot), please bury larger signs deeper. 30" stop signs, for example, need to be buried three feet. "The bigger the sign, the deeper the hole".

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I want to install a stop sign near to a busy sidewalk. How high should the sign be and do you have any instructions for our grounds crew?

The bottom of the sign should be about 7' from the ground. When you install the sign, let me just borrow "Bryan's" rules.

1. Buy two posts and a standard kit that includes two bolts and nuts. Many just buy two 6' posts.

2 Find the spot that is visible, but not too close to the road. A distance of about 6' from the road is ideal. Find sledge hammer and borrow a strong back for about five minutes. Pound one of the two posts into the ground. Don't bother with digging a hole. Just pound away. Although many recommend that you sink the post 2-3 feet into the ground, most installers seem to stop short of this.

3. Fasten your sign to the second post. The flat part of the sign needs to rest against the flange of the post. This gives you the greatest stability.

4. Take the other post and lay it on the ground near to buried post. Thread a bolt and washer through the fifth hole from the top of the buried post. Thread from the inside of the post (inside the "C"). Then, thread the bolt through the second post. Align the posts so that they will nest. Swing the second post to vertical and tighten the nut at the back.

5. Choose the next hole that is about 4" higher (leaving three open holes). Thread and tighten the second bolt and nut. This can be done by one person. For more information on break-away posts, see our Sign Tips.?

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Do tapered posts work better? Is it faster to pound these into the ground?

It is a good idea, but in practice it does not work. Frankly, I wish they did work better. To anyone who has spent the last 30 minutes pounding a post into the ground can attest, any savings would be worth it. But, in our experience, it is a waste of money and the tapered end of a post makes no difference. If you disagree, please call, we still have plenty in stock.

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I am putting new reserved parking signs around our lot. What posts do I need?

Most parking signs are fastened to 8' posts. Generally, they are sunk about 1.5 feet into the ground.

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Can I just buy posts from Home Depot? Or, the local farm supply store?

The kinds of posts that you typically see at a local store are called "T-Posts". These are used to hold wire and have barbs along one side. Unfortunately, they are not suitable for signs. In our experience, U-Channel sign posts are not readily available from retail stores.

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Do you sell taller posts? A 10' post?

Note that we do not list these larger size of posts, although we certainly could ship these to you. The trouble is with shipping. UPS handles posts that are 8' or shorter. Longer posts must be shipped via a trucker. In most cases, the minimum trucking fee is $75.00. We have had too many customers (understandably) upset with a shipping bill that is $125 for a post that, itself, only cost $35 each. In many cases, it is easier to buy two smaller posts and bolt them together. There is further benefit too – you do not have to climb such a high ladder to drive the post into the ground. A heavy sledge hammer is tough enough to wield with two feet on the ground, let alone when you are precariously perched onto a ladder.

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When are 360° breakaway posts used?

These types of posts are found often for signs mounted in medians. The post can be hit from any direction.

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What is the most common post used for a 24" stop sign?

Although we seen a plenty (and, maybe even a majority) of off street parking lots use an 8' posts, we recommend that you use two 8' posts. Follow the MUTCD rules and get the sign up a clearance height of 7'.

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